500mg de enantato ... QUE MIEDO¡¡¡

HOLA A TODOS SEGUIRE UN CICLO DE DECA Y TESTO PERO ALGUNOS FORISTAS ME DIJERON K LE META HASTA 500 MG DE ENANTATO A MI CICLO X LAS 8 SEMANAS QUE DURARA…BUENO MI DUDA ES SABER SI REALMENTE MAS ES MEJOR EN CUANTO A LA TESTO…KIERO DECIR REALMENTE VALDRA LA PENA SUBIR A 500MG LA DOSIS DE TESTO EN MI CICLO…POR FAVOR SI ALGUIEN LO HA UTILIZADO A ESA DOSIS KISIERA K M CUENTE SU EXPERIENCIA PERSONAL GRACIAS

hahah conosco una persona que se mete 1000mg a la semana por 10 semanas.

pero ahora la pregunta es cuanto pesas y cuanto mides.

dependiendo de tu peso y tu historial.

con 250 estaria bien , pero si quieres agregar 500 tambien puedes.

muchos se meten 750 sin problemas.

saludos

Por tu pregunta deduzco (corrijeme si me equivoco) q mucha experiencia en esto de los roids no tienes, por lo que en mi opinion con 250 a las semana de enantato tendrías mas que suficiente combinandolo con 300 de Deca o Boldenona. Si quieres lo que puedes hacer en la primera semana es un frondload de 500 de enantato y 400 de Deca.

Un Saludo

NO ES CONVENIENTE HACER EL FRONT DE LOS DOS ROIDS JUNTOS, ES DECIR YO HARIA LA PRIMER SEMANA EL FRONT DE LA TESTO, LA SEGUNDA YA A LOS NIVELES USUALES, HACIENDO EN ESTA EL FRON DEL DECA. DE TODAS FORMAS NO SE LO QUE BUSCA CONSEGUIR ESTE MUCHACHO. POR LO PRONTO QUE BUSQUE LOS PROTECTORES, QUE NI LOS MENCIONA.

busco rptas concretas

no entiendo xk en 2 de los mensajes de respuestas me ponen atribuciones de no saber nada de roids a lo unico k me limite fue a preguntarles los pros y los contras de utilizar 500mg semanales de testo… en ningun momento les pregunte sobre el post ciclo o cosas por el estilo creo k es tonto pensar k para alguien k se aviente al ciclo k pienso hacer no tenga los conocimientos necesarios de roids y k al menos no tenga un ciclo encima …cosas k para mi estan mas k entendidas x favor solo tomense la molestia de responderme lo k les pido…LOS PROS Y LOS CONTRA DE USAR 500MG DE TESTO gracias

Re: busco rptas concretas

Pensaras q es tonto pero gente asi existe,y mucha.Hombre lo primero q tenias q haber dixo era q llevas ya algun ciclo encima,la gente no sabe si eres un novato o q,y para aconsejar esas cosas hay q saberlo todo.Mira si ya has probado los roids y sabes como responde tu cuerpo y tienes un peso aceptable no veo ningun problema en meter 500mg,incluso haria un front-load d 750 la primera semana.Saludos!!

Re: busco rptas concretas

con 250 estaria bien , pero si quieres agregar 500 tambien puedes.

muchos se meten 750 sin problemas.

Ahi ya te estan respondiendo REnato…

en ningun momento les pregunte sobre el post ciclo o cosas por el estilo creo k es tonto pensar k para alguien k se aviente al ciclo k pienso hacer no tenga los conocimientos necesarios de roids y k al menos no tenga un ciclo encima …cosas k para mi estan mas k entendidas x favor solo tomense la molestia de responderme lo k les pido…

Aparte si ya tienes muchos conocimientos sobre ésto no veo el porque preguntas entonces…sencillamente parta la proxima pon que ya sabes “Todo”…

Ademas si puedes leer bien NINGUN forista te coloca o habla algo sobre el postciclo…asi que veo que estas biennnn herrado men!!!

pero ahora la pregunta es cuanto pesas y cuanto mides.

dependiendo de tu peso y tu historial.

Aqui el colega diabolous te coloca que datos necesita tanto el como muchos para poder opinar bien sobre esto y tu en ningun momento los colocas!!! Y lo que llamas tonto es porque tu mismo lo das a entender ok!!

SAludos!!

DISCULPAS POR NO HABER ESCRITO ANTES, ES QUE FUI PAPA, Y MAS ALLA DE OTRAS COSAS NO TUVE TIEMPO DE SENTARME Y MUCHO MENOS DE ENTRENAR. PERO BUENO AHI TE VA
COMO ES ESO DE QUE YA TIENES EXPERIENCIA, Y AUN NO SABES LOS PRO Y CONTRAS DE USOS DE ROIDS. Y MUCHO MENOS DEL QUE MENCIONAS.MIRA POR SI ACASO AQUI A TODO NUEVO SE LO TOMA COMO A CUALQUIERA DE LOS QUE HABITUALMENTE NOS CONTACTAMOS, PUES SI YO NO CONOZCO TU HISTORIAL SIEMPRE VOY A TRATARTE COMO A UN NIÑO, PRIMERO PORTECCION Y LUEGO LAS DROGAS, ESPERO NO TE OFENDAS, PERO NO DUDES QUE EN UNA RESPUESTA PUEDO SER MUCHO MAS DURO DE LO QUE IMAGINAS. Y A LEER QUE NO HACE DAÑO.

si es tu primer ciclo usa 250mg semanales. Y no, no simpre mas es mejor. Aprovecha tus receptores virgenes si es tu primera vez, no los satures con 500mg.

Bueno FElicitaciones Mariano…espero te vaya super bien siendo padre!!

SAludos!!

xk se arañan tanto???

BUENO ANTES K NADA DEBO PEDIRLES DISCULPAS A KIEN SE HAYA OFENDIDO CON MI INOFENSIVO COMENTARIO Y BUENO SI X PERSONA ANDA DICIENDO X AHI K ES EL papa KE LO SIGA SIENDO…osea k en este foro k a mi parecer es el mejor uno no puede hacer sus descargos??? tengo bien entendido k no faltan idiotas en el foro k andan preguntado cosas acerca de roids cuando ni sikiera han leido sus perfiles ESTA BIEN Y LO ENTIENDO pero en todo caso lo unico k keria dejar en claro era k yo no era uno de esos idotas ME HE KEMADO LAS PESTAÑAS LEYENDO COMO M… DE ROIDS en todos los foros habido y x haber EL K NO TENGA NI 2 ESTRELLAS no tiene xk significar k soy un ignorante pero no culpo a kien lo haya pensado esta en su derecho Y NO X ESO VOY A IR DICIENDO X AHI K SON hijos O k yo soy PAPA ok??? bueno y como estoy seguro k despues de esto algunos van a seguir atacandome en ves de responder a mi preguntA les digo k no gasten sus tiempo haciendole ya di mis razones del xk de mis comentarios OFENSIVOS para algunos y BUENO ESPERO K AHORA SI ALGUIEN K SE PUEDA TOMAR LA MOLESTIA ES RESPONDERME SI ES K HA USADO 500 MG DE ENANTATO COMO LE FUE …SI FUE MUCHA LA DIFERENCIA DE USAR 500 K 250 … SE VIO AFECTADO X ALGUN EFECTO SECUNDARIO Y SI FUE ASI CUAL FUE??? GRACIAS

Que edad tienes, cuanto pesas, cuanto tiempo llevas entrenando. Como te dije si eres novato sola usa 250mg semanales, con esto sera suficiente, pero tu estas pensando que con 500mg sera mejor. Esa testo que quieres usar es una esto bien androgenica y con efectos segundarios altos, asi que ten cuidado. yo la use en mi primer ciclo junto con deca y me fue bien solo que por ser tan fuerte me salio mucha acne, retencion deagua, Si hubiera tenido el conocimiento que tengo ahora sobre los roids no la hubiera usado, hubiera usado una mas suave como sustanon.

Bueno si tienes pensado todavia en meterte enantato, realiza un front de 500mg y despues baja la dosis a 250mg/semanales!!!

Saludos!!

BUENO ESTIMADO ZY, GRACIAS POR LAS FELICITACIONES, ESTOY RECONTENTO A RESPECTO, LA UNICA CONTRA ES QUE AL FORO Y AL GYM, MUY POCA BOLA, PERO FELIZ.
CON RESPECTO A ESTE MUCHACHO, NO SE SI LE RECOMENDARIA HACER UN FRONT-LOAD CON ENANTATO, YA QUE ES LA PRIMERA VZ QUE LO UTILIZARIA, POR SI ACASO PORQ NO HACERLO CON SUSTANON, DURATESTON,ETC., QUE ES MAS SUAVE DEBIDO A SUS 4 ESTERES.

datos adicionales

gracias x sus rptas pero de todos modos les alcanzo unos datos mas…este seria mi 2do ciclo mi edad es 21 años…la razon principal por la k me gustaria intentat con 500mg semanales de enantato es k en muchos foros he leido k con base cientifica demuestran k se puede utilizar hasta 600mg de enantato sin tener efectos mas serios de lo que se tendria con el uso de 250mg X ESO NACE MI DUDA CON RESPECTO A K TANTO MEJOR SERIA EL USO DE 500MG SEMANALES Cita:
DENLE UNA CHEQUEADA A ESTO Y OPINEN

Androgen receptors down-regulate….Don’t they?
One misunderstood principle of steroid physiology is the concept of androgen receptors (AR), sometimes called “steroid receptors”, and the effects of steroid use on their regulation. It is commonly believed that taking androgens for extended periods of time will lead to what is called AR “down regulation”. The premise for this argument is; when using steroids during an extended cycle, you eventually stop growing even though the dose has not decreased. This belief has persisted despite the fact that there is no scientific evidence to date that shows that increased levels of androgens down regulates the androgen receptor in muscle tissue.

The argument for AR down-regulation sounds pretty straightforward on the surface. After all, we know that receptor down-regulation happens with other messenger-mediated systems in the body such as adrenergic receptors. It has been shown that when taking a beta agonist such as Clenbuterol, the number of beta-receptors on target cells begins to decrease. (This is due to a decrease in the half-life of receptor proteins without a decrease in the rate that the cell is making new receptors.) This leads to a decrease in the potency of a given dose. Subsequently, with fewer receptors you get a smaller, or diminished, physiological response. This is a natural way for your body to maintain equilibrium in the face of an unusually high level of beta-agonism.

In reality this example using Clenbuterol is not an appropriate one. Androgen receptors and adrenergic receptors are quite different. Nevertheless, this is the argument for androgen receptor down-regulation and the reasoning behind it. The differences in the regulation of ARs and adrenergic receptors in part show the error in the view that AR down-regulate when you take steroids. Where adrenergic receptor half-life is decreased in most target cells with increased catecholamines, AR receptors half-live’s are actually increased in many tissues in the presence of androgens.1

Let me present a different argument against AR down-regulation in muscle tissue. I feel that once you consider all of the effects of testosterone on muscle cells you come to realize that when you eventually stop growing (or grow more slowly) it is not because there is a reduction in the number of androgen receptors.

Testosterone: A multifaceted anabolic

Consider the question, “How do anabolic steroids produce muscle growth?” If you were to ask the average bodybuilding enthusiast I think you would hear, “steroids increase protein synthesis.” This is true, however there is more to it than simple increases in protein synthesis. In fact, the answer to the question of how steroids work must include virtually every mechanism involved in skeletal muscle hypertrophy. These mechanisms include:

· Enhanced protein synthesis

· Enhanced growth factor activity (e.g. GH, IGF-1, etc.)

· Enhanced activation of myogenic stem cells (i.e. satellite cells)

· Enhanced myonuclear number (to maintain nuclear to cytoplasmic ratio)

· New myofiber formation

Starting with enhanced growth factor activity, we know that testosterone increases GH and IGF-1 levels. In a study by Fryburg the effects of testosterone and stanozolol were compared for their effects on stimulating GH release.2 Testosterone enanthate (only 3 mg per kg per week) increased GH levels by 22% and IGF-1 levels by 21% whereas oral stanozolol (0.1mg per kg per day) had no effect whatsoever on GH or IGF-1 levels. This study was only 2-3 weeks long, and although stanozolol did not effect GH or IGF-1 levels, it had a similar effect on urinary nitrogen levels.

What does this difference in the effects of testosterone and stanozolol mean? It means that stanozolol may increase protein synthesis by binding to AR receptors in existing myonuclei, however, because it does not increase growth factor levels it is much less effective at activating satellite cells and therefore may not increase satellite cell activity nor myonuclear number directly when compared to testosterone esters. I will explain the importance of increasing myonuclear number in a moment, first lets look at how increases in GH and IGF-1 subsequent to testosterone use effects satellite cells…

In part 2 we will discuss the role of satellite cells and myonuclei and how testosterone (androgens) activates these systems to create muscle growth far beyond what simple activation of the androgen receptor can produce.

Don’t forget Satellite cells!

Satellite cells are myogenic stem cells, or pre-muscle cells, that serve to assist regeneration of adult skeletal muscle. Following proliferation (reproduction) and subsequent differentiation (to become a specific type of cell), satellite cells will fuse with one another or with the adjacent damaged muscle fiber, thereby increasing the number of myonuclei for fiber growth and repair. Proliferation of satellite cells is necessary in order to meet the needs of thousands of muscle cells all potentially requiring additional nuclei. Differentiation is necessary in order for the new nucleus to behave as a nucleus of muscle origin. The number of myonuclei directly determines the capacity of a muscle cell to manufacture proteins, including androgen receptors.

In order to better understand what is physically happening between satellite cells and muscle cells, try to picture 2 oil droplets floating on water. The two droplets represent a muscle cell and a satellite cell. Because the lipid bilayer of cells are hydrophobic just like common oil droplets, when brought into proximity to one another in an aqueous environment, they will come into contact for a moment and then fuse together to form one larger oil droplet. Now whatever was dissolved within one droplet (i.e. nuclei) will then mix with the contents of the other droplet. This is a simplified model of how satellite cells donate nuclei, and thus protein-synthesizing capacity, to existing muscle cells.

Enhanced activation of satellite cells by testosterone requires IGF-1. Those androgens that aromatize are effective at not only increasing IGF-1 levels but also the sensitivity of satellite cells to growth factors.3 This action has no direct effect on protein synthesis, but it does lead to a greater capacity for protein synthesis by increasing fusion of satellite cells to existing fibers. This increases the number of myonuclei and therefore the capacity of the cell to produce proteins. That is why large bodybuilders will benefit significantly more from high levels of androgens compared to a relatively new user.

Testosterone would be much less effective if it were not able to increase myonucleation. There is finite limit placed on the cytoplasmic/nuclear ratio, or the size of a muscle cell in relation to the number of nuclei it contains.4 Whenever a muscle grows in response to training there is a coordinated increase in the number of myonuclei and the increase in fiber cross sectional area (CSA). When satellite cells are prohibited from donating viable nuclei, overloaded muscle will not grow.5,6 Clearly, satellite cell activity is a required step, or prerequisite, in compensatory muscle hypertrophy, for without it, a muscle simply cannot significantly increase total protein content or CSA.

More myonuclei mean more receptors

So it is not only true that testosterone increases protein synthesis by activating genetic expression, it also increases the capacity of the muscle to grow in the future by leading to the accumulation of myonuclei which are required for protein synthesis. There is good reason to believe that testosterone in high enough doses may even encourage new fiber formation. To quote the authors of a recent study on the effects of steroids on muscle cells:

"Intake of anabolic steroids and strength-training induce an increase in muscle size by both hypertrophy and the formation of new muscle fibers. We propose that activation of satellite cells is a key process and is enhanced by the steroid use."7

Simply stated, supraphysiological levels of testosterone give rise to increased numbers of myonuclei and thereby an increase in the number of total androgen receptors per muscle fiber. Keep in mind that I am referring to testosterone and testosterone esters. Not the neutered designer androgens that people take to avoid side effects.

Another group of researchers are quoted as saying:

“…it is intriguing to speculate that the upregulation of AR levels via the administration of pharmacological amounts of androgens might convert some muscles that normally have a minor or no response to muscles with enhanced androgen responsiveness”

This is not an argument to rapidly increase the dosages you use. It takes time for these changes to occur and the benefits of higher testosterone levels will not be immediately realized. It does shed some light however on the proportional differences between natural and androgen assisted bodybuilders physiques.

Maintenance of the kind of muscle mass seen in top-level bodybuilders today requires a given level of androgens in the body. That level will vary from individual to individual depending on their genetics. Nevertheless, if the androgen level drops, or if they were to “cycle off” the absolute level of lean mass will also drop. Likewise, as the level of androgens goes up, so will the level of lean mass that individual will be able to maintain. All of this happens without any evidence of AR down regulation. More accurately it demonstrates a relationship between the amount of androgens in the blood stream and the amount of lean mass that you can maintain. This does not mean that all you need is massive doses to get huge. Recruitment of satellite cells and increased myonucleation requires consistent “effective” training, massive amounts of food, and most importantly, time. Start out with reasonable doses. Then, as you get bigger you can adjust your doses upwards.

Sorry es muy largo para mi :stuck_out_tongue: